[00:00:00] Andrew: There we go. All right. For, for, uh, folks joining on YouTube, hello. [00:00:05] We are also live on Twitch for the first time ever, and we're trying to kind of figure this out in [00:00:10] real time. hello
[00:00:12] Nathan: Hey, how's it going?
[00:00:13] Andrew: I'm gonna call it.
[00:00:14] Andrew: We, we did it. We're [00:00:15] live on both. We can end this stream.
[00:00:16] Nathan: Nice. We did it.
[00:00:19] Andrew: We did it.[00:00:20]
[00:00:20] Nathan: That
[00:00:20] Andrew: Happy Friday. I know, right?
[00:00:22] Nathan: happy Friday indeed. How's it going?[00:00:25]
[00:00:25] Andrew: It's good. Um, I am excited to not talk [00:00:30] about AI this week
[00:00:31] Nathan: Although it, it may find its way somehow into the conversation as it always [00:00:35] does.
[00:00:35] Andrew: Yeah. For, for folks who, yeah, who might be new, uh, we usually talk [00:00:40] about tech stuff, creativity, and whatever else is on our minds on our weekly [00:00:45] live stream here, which is usually 3:30-ish Pacific. Um, we're a little closer to [00:00:50] 4:00 today, but, you know, that's how, that's how it goes.
[00:00:53] Nathan: Yeah
[00:00:53] Andrew: And, uh, well, [00:00:55] we've talked, talking a lot about, uh, AI stuff live and then, uh, we'll also [00:01:00] have interviews with folks where we'll talk about whatever those people do.
[00:01:03] Andrew: Trying to do two of those a month now. [00:01:05] So, uh, today we're gonna talk through some of this UAP, UFO [00:01:10] stuff and what that all means
[00:01:12] Nathan: it is a very big departure, I think, for, for us. So
[00:01:14] Nathan: we're, [00:01:15] we're talking about it before on the
[00:01:16] Nathan: sc- before
[00:01:17] Andrew: tie this in for folks, last week we [00:01:20] came live, we were late. We were really late last week, and I was like, "I wanna talk about [00:01:25] the thing we were talking about." And that was part of what we were talking about because there was a, [00:01:30] uh, tranche, I think they're calling them.
[00:01:32] Nathan: The Kongam tranches, yeah,
[00:01:33] Nathan: interestingly enough. It A [00:01:35] tranche of information.
[00:01:36] Nathan: G. Yeah
[00:01:37] Andrew: Uh, um, it's like a metric shit ton, but government speak, [00:01:40] I guess. I don't know.
[00:01:41] Andrew: And, uh, I was like, "This is wild." Like, nobody seems to [00:01:45] know about this and, and we're not even talking about it. And then I- we didn't really wanna talk about it on [00:01:50] stream 'cause you hadn't had a chance to really look over any of it.
[00:01:52] Andrew: I can't say that I'm a UFO aficionado [00:01:55] or a UAP aficionado, but, uh, I thought it was kinda weird. I've been looking at it for the [00:02:00] last couple weeks. So, uh, to catch folks up, you can go to [00:02:05] war.gov/ufo, which is a website I never thought I would ever talk [00:02:10] about
[00:02:10] Nathan: I never thought you'd say those words in the same sentence.
[00:02:13] Andrew: Oh, man. [00:02:15] Uh, and if you're just following along at home, the Department of Defense has [00:02:20] been renamed the Department of War in the Trump administration. And so that's where you get [00:02:25] war.gov. I think it used to be dod.gov. It probably still is Yes. too. Uh, [00:02:30] and /UFO. Um, I guess if you haven't been following this stuff, UFO [00:02:35] stands for unidentified flying object, and it was changed to UAP at some [00:02:40] point in the past, and which stands for unidentified anomalous phenomenon [00:02:45] or something.
[00:02:46] Nathan: I think that's right. Mm-hmm. Yeah
[00:02:47] Andrew: Um, and it doesn't necessarily mean aliens. [00:02:50] Just wanna throw that out right up, right up front. A lot of people associate it with it, and that's kind of [00:02:55] what we wanted to talk through is, like, what's actually being released, what's going on. Uh, [00:03:00] are there aliens? I wanna get to that one. I wanna be on record.
[00:03:03] Andrew: But, um, [00:03:05] so yeah. So the last, what was it? I think it was May 8th was the first tranche, 8th [00:03:10] was the first one, and last week was the second one, I
[00:03:12] Nathan: think. Yeah. So as-- I have [00:03:15] not reviewed the documents in
[00:03:16] Nathan: full, so I-I'm gonna be following
[00:03:17] Nathan: your lead here. Yeah, not [00:03:20] in full. I've skimmed them a little bit, but,
[00:03:22] Nathan: uh, I, knew we were talking about them.
[00:03:24] Andrew: 10 million [00:03:25] pages and hundreds of gig, yeah. And so, uh, for folks to, I guess [00:03:30] the, the, uh, geez, I don't even know how to, like, talk, talk about [00:03:35] it. Uh, so President Trump created an executive order directed specifically [00:03:40] to the, the-- Or I don't even honestly know if it was a-- I don't know if it was an executive order or he [00:03:45] put it out on Truth Social.
[00:03:46] Andrew: The official government website has his Truth Social [00:03:50] post. Presumably this would've been in a direct, uh, executive order. I'm not... Don't quote me on that. Uh, but [00:03:55] to the, the Secretary of War and some of the other departments, I think is how it was, uh, [00:04:00] mentioned. And again, you can go to war.gov/ufo, again, never thought I would be saying [00:04:05] that out loud, uh, to see this.
[00:04:06] Andrew: Th- I'm not-- This is not political. I'm just trying to report the facts on [00:04:10] this. And, um, some other departments which include, uh, the [00:04:15] FBI is in there, the department, what is it, DOI, the [00:04:20] Department of Intelligence.
[00:04:22] Nathan: Is
[00:04:22] Andrew: Would've been Tulsi Gabbard's old [00:04:25] post. So, so the National Security Infrastructure of America is very confusing, probably on purpose.[00:04:30]
[00:04:30] Andrew: But you have, like, the Central Intelligence Agency chief, which is technically [00:04:35] not a cabinet position, but is, like, k- always included. And then you have the Director of National [00:04:40] Intelligence, who I believe is a cabinet position, and then kind of oversees the CIA, [00:04:45] but also not really.
[00:04:47] Nathan: Sound, sounds about right.
[00:04:48] Nathan: Kind of, but not really, but yeah
[00:04:49] Andrew: [00:04:50] Yeah. And there's all sorts of other shit too.
[00:04:51] Andrew: I don't know any- I don't know enough about it. But, um, it's, [00:04:55] it's really confusing. And then I, I think the Air Force is in there, which is under the DoD, but th- [00:05:00] they're, they're really prominent. And then there's some other agencies that I'm not familiar [00:05:05] with or as familiar with, uh, that have stuff in there too.
[00:05:08] Andrew: So it's... I guess the [00:05:10] idea is that it's everybody in the executive who theoretically reports [00:05:15] through the president is supposed to start dumping everything they have [00:05:20] related to UAP, UFO. I think even, I think he even said, like, [00:05:25] extraterrestrial. It's like a-
[00:05:25] Nathan: was it, was it everything or was it, uh, there, there were still certain things that they could, that [00:05:30] was still technically confidential, right? Like they... Like that's why it's take- that's why they're releasing in [00:05:35] tranches, right?
[00:05:35] Andrew: They're declassify... Yeah,
[00:05:36] Andrew: yeah, yeah. So yeah, they're not just like throwing all the files on the [00:05:40] internet. They are declassif-
[00:05:41] Nathan: would be for...
[00:05:42] Andrew: And that's a
[00:05:42] Nathan: I didn't know if that include-- yeah
[00:05:44] Nathan: I didn't know if that [00:05:45] included certain details around what that clinical evidence [00:05:50] might be
[00:05:51] Andrew: Yeah.
[00:05:51] Andrew: Well, I'll just, I'll read it. So this was, yeah,
[00:05:54] Andrew: [00:05:55] war.gov/ufo.
[00:05:56] Nathan: Hmm
[00:05:57] Andrew: Not sponsored.
[00:05:58] Nathan: Why would they sponsor [00:06:00] this? That'd be interesting, but I don't know why they would
[00:06:02] Andrew: Yeah. So the Truth Social post, which is the [00:06:05] top of the page, "But based on tremendous interest shown, I will be directing the Secretary of War and other relevant [00:06:10] departments and agencies to begin the process of identifying and releasing [00:06:15] government files related to alien and extraterrestrial life, unidentified aerial [00:06:20] phenomenon, UAP, and unidentified flying objects, [00:06:25] UFO, and any and all other information collected by these highly complex but [00:06:30] extremely interesting and important matters.
[00:06:31] Andrew: God bless America." And so that was Donald Trump on Truth Social. [00:06:35] That's... Reads like an executive order. Again, I don't know if it's an actual government-signed [00:06:40] executive order. An executive order for folks, uh, who don't know, is literally the president just saying, "Do this [00:06:45] thing," and then it happens. It's, that's all it is.
[00:06:48] Nathan: There's, there's gotta be a foundation though, [00:06:50] but for the most part, yeah, I guess that's kind of how it
[00:06:52] Andrew: It, dude, it's just, it's a former, it's a form- [00:06:55] formal directive to the executive branch and sometimes the government, uh, to do something. It's all [00:07:00] it is. It's, you know, it's... People make it sound like it's a big deal, but it's just like a proclamation. [00:07:05] It's like a memo. And then there's, like, all the shit that the presidents say that's just, like, kind of policy [00:07:10] inferred, where people are like, "Ah, this is what we should do with the policy," and then they do it.
[00:07:13] Andrew: But an executive order, [00:07:15] it's like a mandate. It's like now the government, the executive branch has to do blank, whatever that [00:07:20] order is. Um, so I, I believe this is, like, the first of its kind. I don't know that any [00:07:25] other president... There's been teasings of this throughout history, but [00:07:30] up until, like, recently, I don't think anyone's actually, like, really gone on record and said, "Do [00:07:35] it."
[00:07:35] Andrew: I don't think anyone's ever said,
[00:07:37] Nathan: this in-- yeah, to
[00:07:38] Nathan: releasing this information, right.
[00:07:39] Nathan: [00:07:40] Yeah.
[00:07:40] Andrew: So, so they're releasing that, whatever that means, and, uh, [00:07:45] they're going through declassification still, right? So there are documents that are [00:07:50] redacted. Uh, the typical excuses for redacting is, um, methods and sources. [00:07:55] So if there's a method of collecting information we don't want the rest of the world to know we have, we'll redact [00:08:00] it.
[00:08:00] Andrew: If there's specific individuals or specific [00:08:05] identifiable things that we wanna keep secret, we'll keep those secret. But the idea behind [00:08:10] declassification and, and also just frankly American democracy is that we, the people of the United States, have a [00:08:15] right to know what the government does. And if everything's classified, we can't [00:08:20] know that, so this is part of the, uh, system of government.
[00:08:24] Andrew: And it's very [00:08:25] rare in the rest of the world, right? So it's, it's kinda unique to us. Go us.
[00:08:29] Nathan: Go [00:08:30] America. Yeah.
[00:08:30] Andrew: Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's... I think it's cool.
[00:08:33] Nathan: yeah, yeah.
[00:08:34] Andrew: and [00:08:35] so yeah, so here we are. Um, I, I s- I, I remember kind of hearing [00:08:40] about this and being like, "Yeah, okay." 'Cause I think Trump campaigned a couple times [00:08:45] on, uh,
[00:08:46] Nathan: Transparency in
[00:08:47] Andrew: yeah, the JFK [00:08:50] stuff, and there was some other, uh, topics of interest, I guess you could say, that [00:08:55] there are n- or not conspiracies around.
[00:08:57] Andrew: And I think maybe to define the word conspiracies, [00:09:00] I feel like I'm gonna say that constantly,
[00:09:02] Nathan: Yeah, I was
[00:09:02] Nathan: gonna say it's not a new topic that [00:09:05] we've
[00:09:05] Nathan: talked about, but yeah, yeah
[00:09:07] Andrew: Yeah, but, but conspiracy is, [00:09:10] is, uh, typically I think a group of, uh, or a, a coordinated [00:09:15] known effort to withhold something
[00:09:18] Nathan: Oh, are you trying to define it right [00:09:20] now?
[00:09:20] Nathan: For how we wanna use it? Okay.
[00:09:22] Nathan: All right.
[00:09:22] Andrew: Right. And so then a conspiracy can [00:09:25] either be completely made up without evidence and fake, and a con... But I think more [00:09:30] importantly, a conspiracy can also be real. There are many conspiracies throughout history that [00:09:35] have been, you know, labeled kooky or, like, made up to be proven correctly. [00:09:40] Like the Bay of Pigs in, um, Cuba in the '60s is a great example of something that w- [00:09:45] that was a conspiracy and then it happened, and then they tried to cover it up and make it a conspiracy.
[00:09:49] Andrew: Turns out it actually [00:09:50] happened. And for folks who don't know, we, the CIA and a couple other [00:09:55] agencies got a bunch of people together who were Cuban nationals and invaded Cuba with them and [00:10:00] gave them arms and tried to overthrow Castro. Like, that's a real thing that happened, and that wasn't, I [00:10:05] don't think, technically declassified until, like, the '90s.
[00:10:08] Andrew: So... And it was a conspiracy [00:10:10] until it was, you know, technically done. Um, that doesn't mean a conspiracy can't be [00:10:15] known either. But I, I think where, where I wanna try to disentangle this, and like we were talking a little bit [00:10:20] before we, we went live, is that I wanna, like, talk [00:10:25] through, kind of separate, like, what does this mean, and [00:10:30] then dive into some of the possibilities of, like, is, is it even...
[00:10:34] Andrew: Are [00:10:35] aliens even possible? ' Cause I, I think they get intertwined so much, and then there's always, [00:10:40] like, this religious coefficient who gets, that gets tied in, too. And I think you have to separate [00:10:45] the three kind of pieces of information out of, like, is this technology, is this aliens, or is this some [00:10:50] kind of other third category of stuff, or maybe none of the [00:10:55] above?
[00:10:56] Nathan: Right. A- and I think for maybe those who have [00:11:00] not heard of us before, since this is the first time we're on Twitch, I, I think part of the reason we're, we're doing this is w-[00:11:05]
[00:11:05] Nathan: both of us really like the idea of, of, of critic- critical thinking, right? Like,[00:11:10]
[00:11:10] Andrew: Yes
[00:11:10] Nathan: in many of these scenarios, when you're presented with information, uh, you can [00:11:15] easily dismiss it for one reason or another.
[00:11:17] Nathan: But part of the critical thinking exercise is, okay, [00:11:20] take the other stance for a little bit. See how it might even be possible. What is the line of [00:11:25] thinking that got you there? What is the line of thinking that gets someone else there?
[00:11:28] Nathan: And then can you sort [00:11:30] of resolve that, uh, the discrepancy there? So I thought that was a fun way to present this [00:11:35] exercise, so
[00:11:35] Andrew: agree.
[00:11:36] Andrew: And, and that's what we were talking about before we went live last week, was like, this is a [00:11:40] perfect example of, uh, there's so many claims being made. We talk a lot about AI, [00:11:45] so I will talk a little bit about AI. Uh, I vindicated... I just wanna throw that out there. I [00:11:50] was right. Let, let the whole internet just, like, soak that in.
[00:11:54] Nathan: Did you say [00:11:55] that last week or was it the week before?
[00:11:56] Nathan: There, there was recently Yeah. I put out a [00:12:00] proclamation, uh, a couple weeks ago, and I said something to the tune of, "Once the AI [00:12:05] companies, uh, IPO," which means they get all their shares exchanged for [00:12:10] real money, everybody cashes out, all of a sudden AGI, which is the super intelligence [00:12:15] that's gonna take over everyone's job, is gonna be much further in the distance, and, and they're gonna downplay and [00:12:20] backtrack.
[00:12:20] Andrew: And there was an article this week in Forbes where that's exactly what's happening, [00:12:25] shockingly enough. Because they, they... When you have to go... When you go public, when you IPO, [00:12:30] initial public offering, you have to prove your claims, right? And now all of a sudden, you can say anything you [00:12:35] want, right? It's America, it's a free country.
[00:12:36] Andrew: There's some rules on free speech, but frankly, we have, like, none [00:12:40] compared to the rest of the world. But when you start exchanging money on the stock market, you [00:12:45] can't just make shit up. There's a bunch of rules you have to follow, and there's due diligence that has to be done, even [00:12:50] though those documents are not necessarily completely true all the time either, and there's ways to mislead [00:12:55] people.
[00:12:55] Andrew: But you have to be able to prove it. Um, and that's kind of this era that we're in, and that's [00:13:00] why I thought this, this UFO stuff, UAP stuff was so interesting because it, it's kind of a trust me [00:13:05] moment. It's a trust me bro moment, as they
[00:13:07] Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah
[00:13:08] Andrew: And, and so I guess for [00:13:10] folks, like, there's the Roswell shit. I'm sure everybody knows about that now, where there was allegedly [00:13:15] aliens crash landed and we have them in alien- Area 51.
[00:13:18] Andrew: And Obama came out [00:13:20] a couple months a- or I think a month ago now and said, "Yeah, there's aliens. I haven't seen them," and he [00:13:25] backtracked it, and there's all this weird kind of stuff. And everybody's... The conspiracy is always to point [00:13:30] to anecdotal evidence, accumulate a mass of an- anecdotal evidence, and now all of a sudden [00:13:35] you have so much, quote-unquote, evidence, even though it's anecdotal and it's not directly factual, [00:13:40] that everyone just starts believing that something's happening or they just reject it completely.
[00:13:44] Andrew: And [00:13:45] the truth is usually somewhere, like every time, in the middle, in the gray area of the nuances. So, [00:13:50] you know, stuff's kind of come here and there, but what's interesting about this, this May 8th stuff is [00:13:55] that this is the first time that the government has, like, broadly acknowledged that there's a [00:14:00] bunch of shit that we don't quite understand.
[00:14:02] Andrew: It's happening. Like, you can't... Th- there's no [00:14:05] conspiracy here. Like, it, it, the, there, we are capturing stuff on highly advanced sensors in [00:14:10] our most advanced war planes, in our most advanced detection systems for nuclear [00:14:15] missiles and everything else. There's shit in the oceans, on our ships and submarines.
[00:14:19] Andrew: It's like all, [00:14:20] every kind of plane of existence we're familiar with, we have all sorts of evidence in [00:14:25] the, the military defense space that just doesn't make sense.
[00:14:28] Nathan: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:29] Andrew: That's, [00:14:30] that's factual. That's true. Um, and I thought that was, I think, the most interesting [00:14:35] thing on, that happened on May 8th. I was like, "Oh, they, they've admitted they don't know
[00:14:39] Nathan: Yeah, [00:14:40] I was gonna say that's probably the, the biggest thing to take out of that is, uh, the admission or the humility to [00:14:45] say that, "Hey, something happened and we have no idea how to explain it," kind of thing, which is typically not [00:14:50] something you would expect of a, uh, superpower organization to [00:14:55] admit, right?
[00:14:56] Andrew: Yeah. ' Cause it, the implications for this, uh, [00:15:00] are, uh, I've seen the kinda two lenses, like it's aliens, of [00:15:05] course. I'm gonna keep pushing
[00:15:05] Nathan: al- that's always a possibility. It's always a possibility it's aliens. It's always a [00:15:10] possibility
[00:15:10] Andrew: Uh, or it's a foreign adversary, right? It's Russia or China or you name [00:15:15] another, you know, uh, organization in the world who doesn't like us, who has stuff [00:15:20] that is incurring in our airspace and we don't have control over our own territory anymore. That's a [00:15:25] big problem, and I would agree with that. If that's true, that's a huge problem.
[00:15:29] Andrew: And that's one of the [00:15:30] reasons why I think this kind of, uh, conversation does need to happen because i- if, [00:15:35] if this is real and stuff is happening that we can't explain or don't [00:15:40] understand, we need to understand it, right? You, you [00:15:45] can't just have stuff flying around America that we don't know, right? Like, that's [00:15:50] bad.
[00:15:51] Nathan: Yeah, that's what I've been trying to understand is, is like I, I, am [00:15:55] struggling to see the perspective of, of course that's always the case, right? When you don't understand something, we, we quote unquote [00:16:00] have to understand it is, is usually one of the defenses. But I mean, if you take a big [00:16:05] step back, like there are lots of things that we as humans don't fully understand just right here on [00:16:10] Earth, right?
[00:16:10] Nathan: But
[00:16:10] Nathan: we have no urge or, or pressing desire to go and, [00:16:15] and fully understand what it is. So there's this mix between like this idea of we need to know how it's [00:16:20] done, plus this idea of we need to know how it's done so we can protect ourselves,
[00:16:24] Nathan: which I think [00:16:25] is, is kind of like mixing things together. But then the question becomes like, why is [00:16:30] the first thing you assume some malintent? Um, I, I don't
[00:16:33] Nathan: know.
[00:16:34] Nathan: That's, that's where
[00:16:34] Andrew: [00:16:35] out of the defense security industry. That's what they do, right? Everything's a threat. [00:16:40] That's their job.
[00:16:41] Nathan: Sure.
[00:16:42] Andrew: It's threat assessment. Is it dangerous? Yes. Is it [00:16:45] gonna kill me? No. Okay, then can we kill it? Yes. Is it gonna kill me? Maybe. Can [00:16:50] we kill it? I don't know. That's a problem, right?
[00:16:53] Andrew: Like,
[00:16:53] Nathan: Well, I think that's, like...
[00:16:54] Andrew: that's
[00:16:54] Andrew: the, [00:16:55] thought tree
[00:16:55] Nathan: right. But like that, that might, or that mentality if you apply it to something like this where, okay, so say [00:17:00] it is, um, even if it were, say something more close to Earth, like a, [00:17:05] a contrarian country or whatever. If they have this level of technology and we have no idea how [00:17:10] it works, what, why do we think we can all of a sudden jump to the level of [00:17:15] understanding that they had to build whatever it was that they had so that we can
[00:17:18] Nathan: act- all of a sudden surpass [00:17:20] it and kind of...
[00:17:20] Nathan: Like there's just a gap there that's like missing,
[00:17:22] Nathan: right? And it's like we c- we assume that we can [00:17:25] just make that jump and all of a sudden, never mind, we, we got it all figured out. But it, that's [00:17:30] only half of it, right? Uh
[00:17:31] Andrew: Yeah. Well, and there's a lot of implications there. So I, I guess, like, [00:17:35] so okay, so we've kinda covered base one. The, the government has acknowledged that weird shit [00:17:40] is happening that we don't quite understand. The, the branching logic of that tends to [00:17:45] be it's aliens, it's some sort of technological [00:17:50] thing that either we ourselves are doing or other countries are [00:17:55] doing.
[00:17:55] Andrew: It's, uh, some sort of anomalous Earth-based thing, [00:18:00] magnetic fields, air currents, whatever you wanna call it. Uh, [00:18:05] or, uh, there's probably one more in there, probably, like, some kind of spiritual deity [00:18:10] thing that we can't understand that, you know, every religion has some variation
[00:18:13] Nathan: was gonna say that's always an answer. [00:18:15] So
[00:18:15] Andrew: God intermixing with people, and angels and demons and [00:18:20] demi-gods, and all these kind of ideas have, have permeated.
[00:18:23] Andrew: Um, I'm gonna put those all [00:18:25] in one side 'cause I think that's, like, just you have to believe [00:18:30] those exist, period. So again, with critical thinking and kind of redu- [00:18:35] reducing this, like sure, it's possible, but I, I just... There's no evidence.
[00:18:39] Nathan: Right, right[00:18:40]
[00:18:40] Andrew: Because it's the nature of religion is to believe. So if you believe, great.
[00:18:43] Andrew: If you don't believe, fine. [00:18:45] But there's no ev- There is... By, by definition of the word belief, there is no evidence. And you can believe there's [00:18:50] evidence, but there just isn't. So is there a unknown atmospheric [00:18:55] phenomenon? Sure. I think there's probably all sorts of weird shit that happens all over [00:19:00] the world that humans haven't seen or we don't...
[00:19:02] Andrew: We've just recently invented some [00:19:05] new sort of sensor technology that we're ex- being exposed to, and maybe it's just always been like [00:19:10] this. I think that's totally possible. I think it's boring, and I, I kinda want it to be something [00:19:15] else. But it is possible, right? It, we could just be seeing some sort of...
[00:19:18] Andrew: You know, we didn't know about coronal [00:19:20] discharges from the sun for, like, until, like, what? 20, 30 years ago, and even then [00:19:25] we couldn't really, we never really saw them. And now we have the technology to see them, and it turns out they happen all [00:19:30] the time.
[00:19:30] Nathan: Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:31] Andrew: Oops.
[00:19:32] Andrew: We're like, "Oh, it's a rare thing. Oh my God," and then it's like, actually [00:19:35] it happens, like, every minute or something.
[00:19:36] Andrew: It's just, like, totally mundane, but we didn't have the technology to [00:19:40] know.
[00:19:40] Nathan: Yeah
[00:19:41] Andrew: Uh, so then I think there's, uh, adversarial [00:19:45] technology. I think that's the one I wanted to double-click on 'cause we were talking a little bit [00:19:50] before. Sure, I think, I think all of this stuff is plausible 'cause we don't know what it is. I'm [00:19:55] not gonna sit here and tell you aliens exist. I'm not gonna tell you they don't exist.
[00:19:57] Andrew: I don't know. I don't have any [00:20:00] evidence, uh, other than what's been released, and what's been released has been like I don't know what that is. [00:20:05] No one knows what it is, right? It's there, I guess. Like, I don't know. It could all be made up, too. Who [00:20:10] knows? But I'm taking the government at its word that it's not totally making this all up.
[00:20:14] Andrew: [00:20:15] Okay, great. We don't know what it is. Fr- from that perspective, though, I think, like, that is a national [00:20:20] security problem. If, if another group of people on this planet has developed technology [00:20:25] that... And, and I think why does this matter? Some of the, the captures of whatever [00:20:30] these are bend our understanding of physics.
[00:20:32] Andrew: They have rapid [00:20:35] acceleration that goes, you know, tens of thousands of miles an hour instantaneously. We don't know that, how to do [00:20:40] that. Like, theoretically, it's possible. The amount of energy required [00:20:45] would be exponential, or you would have to bend [00:20:50] space-time, is the only other way that I'm aware that you could do it.
[00:20:52] Andrew: And again, theoretically possible. Also massive [00:20:55] amounts of energy. And we don't see the energy input or output happening. It's just like, zip, there it [00:21:00] goes. They'll stop on a dime. They'll make weird, you know, turns that [00:21:05] our pilots couldn't make because th- they would die. They would splat up [00:21:10] against the physical structure.
[00:21:12] Andrew: Yeah,
[00:21:12] Nathan: Right. Or, or
[00:21:13] Nathan: the machinery itself wouldn't be able to [00:21:15] handle the, the
[00:21:15] Andrew: Exact- yeah. The, the mat- the material that the, the, the stuff we [00:21:20] have built, their ships and submarines and planes would just explode and, and, you know, would, would not [00:21:25] survive. They'll transverse, uh, they'll go from water to [00:21:30] air to land and, like, have absolutely no, um,
[00:21:34] Nathan: Change in [00:21:35] velocity or something
[00:21:35] Andrew: change. Yeah, it's just like they're completely unfazed.
[00:21:38] Andrew: Uh, that's [00:21:40] impossible. Again, if anybody who's ever been on water, you know, yeah, it's, it's pretty malleable until [00:21:45] you're, if you've ever done water skiing and hit, you kinda skip off. Right? Uh, water's a [00:21:50] really weird substance because it, it, um, also repels. There's a lot of [00:21:55] resistance with water and liquid.
[00:21:57] Andrew: And you, when you're going through water, anybody who's [00:22:00] ever been on a boat, you know, there's a drag that happens. And so the faster you [00:22:05] go, uh, on a boat, the more the water goes around your boat, but then it starts to kinda suck you [00:22:10] back, and there's all sorts of physics you have to do to try to get out of that.
[00:22:13] Andrew: And, uh, for folks, [00:22:15] uh, who have probably seen ships, there's these, like, big, round bulb things [00:22:20] on the front of a lot of them. And it sits just under the water, and what that'll do is it'll [00:22:25] break up the, uh, forces coming in, yeah, and the surface tension to [00:22:30] make you go faster through the water. Uh, it also uses less fuel.
[00:22:34] Andrew: And [00:22:35] so we can do, like, 20 miles an hour that way. These things are going, like, 10,000 [00:22:40] miles an hour and then just go into the water
[00:22:41] Nathan: Supposedly. Yeah.
[00:22:43] Andrew: And anyone who's, like, shot a bullet into [00:22:45] water knows that, you know, bullets go in a few hundred miles an hour. It stops instantly and it, you know, it [00:22:50] basically sinks. So even something that's really small and really fast that when it goes into water pretty much [00:22:55] comes to an immediate halt.
[00:22:56] Andrew: So that's, again, the f- fluid dynamics is not something I [00:23:00] remember a lot about, but it's a really, really weird physics, and we [00:23:05] don't have any idea how you would... Well, at least I'm, I'm not aware of any idea on how you would actually, [00:23:10] like, go into the water at 500 miles an hour, let alone, you know, 10,000 miles [00:23:15] an hour
[00:23:16] Nathan: Right. I I think that's what I find so interesting about, like, the [00:23:20] defenses behind, uh... So when you, when you think about some of these, [00:23:25] um, things that we're seeing that we can't quite explain, we currently [00:23:30] don't have the realm of knowledge to fully explain it. You can theorize some things based on what we currently know,
[00:23:34] Nathan: but [00:23:35] what I find a l- lot of, of defenses I hear are like [00:23:40] there's-- Because this thing can do it, there must be some way, right?
[00:23:44] Nathan: So there's [00:23:45] already in, in,
[00:23:46] Nathan: my opinion, like an assumption that there's
[00:23:47] Nathan: a way to do it and not that what you [00:23:50] saw or what you measured was not right?
[00:23:52] Nathan: right? So It's like, "I saw it. It must have [00:23:55] happened." E- exactly right? Exactly. Exactly. "So I saw it happen, so there must be a way to do it," but a- as an [00:24:00] exercise of critical thinking, maybe that's not the case.
[00:24:02] Nathan: Maybe what you saw was not right or the data you have is [00:24:05] wrong, right? So like there's a bias towards thinking about how things could [00:24:10] have been versus maybe what I'm working
[00:24:12] Nathan: off of is not correct.
[00:24:14] Andrew: I,
[00:24:14] Andrew: I think [00:24:15] that's awe- I, I think that's a really good, good point, and I think, like, a lot of the video [00:24:20] evidence that we have is advanced military sensors, mostly out of [00:24:25] planes, um, some ship stuff too, and there's some other stuff. It, it's not everything, but a bulk of it is, [00:24:30] like, these next generation, they call them, sensors for tracking stealth [00:24:35] planes.
[00:24:35] Andrew: I don't know how it works. A lot of how it works is classified, but, uh, [00:24:40] it hasn't been until recently we've had this technology and we've, we've kinda talked through it. Like, it's very possible [00:24:45] it's buggy. Like, I would like to think they've done their due diligence and, like, debugged it, and they're like, "It can't [00:24:50] possibly be a sensor malfunction," until it is.
[00:24:52] Andrew: You know, we, we both work in tech. We both work with hardware and [00:24:55] software. It's all great until it's not or you hit an edge case that just doesn't, [00:25:00] you know... Again, it, this could... Let's just thought experiment. It could be some, [00:25:05] uh, uh, electromagnetic atmospheric thing [00:25:10] that we didn't know existed, and then we- we're picking up on it now for the first time.
[00:25:14] Andrew: [00:25:15] Like, was it the, the trade winds? We still don't quite understand that wind pattern, [00:25:20] something that we've been using since the 1600s to traverse the Atlantic,
[00:25:23] Andrew: and we're still not [00:25:25] quite exactly sure, like, where they're gonna be. Like, we have to throw up balloons, and even then it kind of varies, but [00:25:30] they're between whatever latitudes they are always.
[00:25:32] Andrew: Like, that's kind of the rule. But we... Like, you have to find [00:25:35] them, and that used to be the hard part, and if you couldn't find them, you were screwed. You're just out in the [00:25:40] middle of the Atlantic just bobbing because if you don't have any sort of propulsion, there [00:25:45] no wind,
[00:25:46] Nathan: Right, right
[00:25:46] Andrew: right? And so, like, that's the kind of stuff that, you know, [00:25:50] humans figured that out.
[00:25:51] Andrew: We were here for, what? A couple thousand years, and then we figured out the trade winds, and then [00:25:55] it wasn't until, like, I think it was, like, the '60s or the '70s that we actually, like, mostly [00:26:00] understood them. We've been using something for th- 300 years that we didn't understand. So, I think [00:26:05] that's a, that's a pretty real possibility.
[00:26:08] Andrew: Um, I also... There are [00:26:10] eyewitness reports, and there's a lot of them. And so... And I've seen weird shit at night. I'm sure [00:26:15] everybody has. Like,
[00:26:16] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:26:16] Andrew: it is. It's a UAP. You know, it's kind of a joke now, right? It's like, "Oh, it's a [00:26:20] UFO. I don't know." I mean, technically yes, it's flying. It looks like it's flying, and I [00:26:25] can't identify it.
[00:26:26] Andrew: Pretty low bar.
[00:26:28] Andrew: Like, I've never seen anything,
[00:26:29] Andrew: you [00:26:30] know,
[00:26:30] Nathan: Yeah, yeah
[00:26:31] Andrew: what I would consider overly remarkable, but everyone I know, everyone I've [00:26:35] talked to has seen crazy shit that you're just going, "I don't know if that's what that was," you know?
[00:26:39] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:26:39] Andrew: Uh, [00:26:40] our brains also are imperfect, right? Our, our eyes are not frankly very good.
[00:26:44] Andrew: They're [00:26:45] awesome for what they are, but there's all sorts of... You know, mirages come to mind. In the [00:26:50] desert or in high heat conditions you'll kind of hallucinate things, and your brain is really [00:26:55] good at trying to fill in the puzzle. And so you'll think you'll see something, and it will be [00:27:00] totally different.
[00:27:00] Andrew: Like, if you've ever mistaken somebody's identity in a crowd, you're like, totally, you know, [00:27:05] 100%, "That's my brother. That's my sister. That's my mom. It's my dad- Yeah, you're like, "Hey," and then you're like, the person's like [00:27:10] totally not even close, right? And so part of it is our brain and our, our, [00:27:15] our physical sensors, if you would, our eyes and ears and stuff are also imperfect.
[00:27:19] Andrew: So I think there is a [00:27:20] very real possibility there's just, you're either seeing stuff that your brain's trying to fill in, [00:27:25] or you might be not seeing things and think you
[00:27:28] Nathan: yeah. I, I mean, [00:27:30] there's also the stacking possibility of, of, uh, this group... I, I don't know if it's necessarily groupthink, [00:27:35] but
[00:27:35] Nathan: something happens when you're within a group of people and you're all corroborating each other's stories. It just
[00:27:39] Nathan: [00:27:40] makes it feel more real to
[00:27:41] Andrew: and group hallucinations are real.
[00:27:43] Nathan: Yeah, yeah. Right, right.
[00:27:44] Nathan: Exactly. So, [00:27:45] like
[00:27:45] Andrew: it's uncommon, but it's real. And, and I think it, like these-- A lot of these [00:27:50] explanations sound kind of boring, but a lot of times shit's boring.
[00:27:54] Andrew: [00:27:55] Anyone who's ever done science, tried to invent something, you go through a million permutations of stuff [00:28:00] that's just not interesting and fun until you succeed, and that's just part of creativity and, [00:28:05] and part of investigation.
[00:28:06] Andrew: I do think that assuming that it, it's [00:28:10] what we're seeing captured is real, right? So let's remove all of what we just talked about. Let's [00:28:15] just assume that, yes, there's some anomalous thing. We all agree that it's not our brain [00:28:20] malfunctioning, it's not the sensors malfunctioning. The idea that humans on this planet [00:28:25] have invented something that no other human could conceivably [00:28:30] conceive of, I think is crazy.
[00:28:32] Nathan: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:34] Andrew: works. [00:28:35] It's magical thinking, right? It's like, sure, theoretically you can go from zero to [00:28:40] 10,000 miles an hour with some crazy energy source that we, you know, like [00:28:45] the, the math is the math. We don't know how to do it, but we like, okay, we under- It's like AI, right? We [00:28:50] don't know why AI chooses what it does, but we understand the, the core process of how [00:28:55] AI functions.
[00:28:56] Andrew: Electricity is another example, right? You flip on the switch, it [00:29:00] works. You know, most people have no idea why. And then if you-- The more you know about electricity, the less you really think [00:29:05] you understand about anything, 'cause it doesn't
[00:29:07] Nathan: a lot
[00:29:07] Andrew: a lot of
[00:29:07] Nathan: actually, to be honest. Yeah.
[00:29:09] Nathan: to be honest, like a lot of [00:29:10] things, but yeah.
[00:29:11] Andrew: Yeah. So I, I, I just think that yes, this stuff's theoretically [00:29:15] possible, but for it to have been developed in [00:29:20] secret and no one else knowing or this, this... There's always some kind of grand cabal ex- [00:29:25] you know, where there's a small group of people in control of everything. I, maybe, [00:29:30] again, I'm not gonna, like, yes or no any of this stuff, uh, but I, I [00:29:35] just Everyone in the world has a fucking camera in their pocket,
[00:29:38] Nathan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:29:39] Andrew: right?
[00:29:39] Andrew: [00:29:40] And so the fact that, like, it's only military people seeing this is a little weird [00:29:45] evidentially, evidentially.
[00:29:46] Nathan: Ah, ah, I see what you mean. Okay It's kind of... You know, this [00:29:50] stuff was happening over Phoenix or, you know, and you'll, you'll see every once in a while there'll be some weird lights over a [00:29:55] city and, "Oh my God, what is it?"
[00:29:56] Andrew: And it's like, "I don't know. It looks like weird lights."
[00:29:58] Nathan: Hmm
[00:29:59] Andrew: But you know, [00:30:00] the, the amount and frequency of this stuff being claimed by a lot of these so-called like whistleblowers or [00:30:05] outsiders, but it's only people like in the defense industry is weird, [00:30:10] right? And, um, the fact that more people, just normal average people aren't [00:30:15] being like, "I was driving down the highway and I saw this weird thing, and here's a photo," and it's like not super [00:30:20] descript, but like, there it is.
[00:30:22] Andrew: That is depending upon light, right? [00:30:25] Photo, pho- photons and, and, and if these things can bend light, I guess then all [00:30:30] bets are off. But then how do you see them with your eyes?
[00:30:32] Nathan: Yeah, exactly. I think that was one of the other points, right? [00:30:35] Was like, if this superhuman technology that we don't know of can [00:30:40] do some of the things that bend physics, why can we even detect them at [00:30:45] all? Like, why do we have the, the current technology to be able to see something that can theoretically [00:30:50] break through speed limits of, that we have never been able to figure out before?
[00:30:53] Andrew: to your point
[00:30:54] Nathan: all of a sudden [00:30:55] do our instruments...
[00:30:56] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:30:56] Andrew: kind of the, the reductio of, like, I saw it, therefore it [00:31:00] has to be real,
[00:31:00] Nathan: Yeah, yeah. Right, right.
[00:31:02] Andrew: where, you know, I've seen all sorts of weird stuff in [00:31:05] the sky too, and, you know, you're like, you see clouds that kinda look like shit. And I'm, I'm not trying to, like, [00:31:10] dispel these people either, 'cause, like, again, I don't...
[00:31:13] Andrew: I'd be very surprised if all [00:31:15] of these people are just, like, seeing weird shit and then, like, writing up reports and, like, but maybe they are. I don't [00:31:20] know. Um, but I, I, again, I, I just don't see the [00:31:25] technological component. And then some of the arguments for this will also be [00:31:30] that, you know, aliens have crashed or extraterrestrial ships have crashed and we've reverse engineered it.[00:31:35]
[00:31:35] Andrew: And I think, like, let's play with that one for a minute. Like, one, how [00:31:40] fucking arrogant do you have to be to think that the human monkey brain can, [00:31:45] like, disassemble technology that allows you to bend space time? Like, in [00:31:50] order to go any distance of meaningful measure in the universe, [00:31:55] you have to effectively bend space time.
[00:31:57] Andrew: And, like, theoretically it's possible, you know, [00:32:00] special relativity has all sorts of weird provisions that you don't necessarily have to go [00:32:05] faster than light. You can move the speed limit, which doesn't make any sense, but it's how it [00:32:10] works. I don't know what else to tell folks. you know, theoretically you could, I guess, get beyond [00:32:15] the, the speed of light.
[00:32:16] Andrew: We have no possible way of, of [00:32:20] fathoming that, right? The only way our understanding of a lot of this stuff works [00:32:25] is that the speed of light is a constant, and it's understood. If you get rid of that, [00:32:30] everything is, it's just anything's possible at that point. And so you can argue against [00:32:35] that. I, I think that there's, again, no evidence.
[00:32:37] Andrew: If you have evidence, great. Argue it, fine. But I, I [00:32:40] just... There isn't. And as far as we know, there's no way to do that. And the, [00:32:45] the reason is the faster you go, the more energy you have [00:32:50] to, to, to basically use. And at a certain point, to actually reach the speed [00:32:55] of light, matter, the physical stuff that we interact with, has [00:33:00] to become energy
[00:33:01] Nathan: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:02] Andrew: And that's, like, mathematically very [00:33:05] strange, and physically, like, your body now, you're flying in your little spaceship, okay, [00:33:10] fine.
[00:33:10] Andrew: You get faster than the speed of light, you have to somehow become energy, and then [00:33:15] somehow become reconstituted in a way that, like, makes sense. So [00:33:20] theoretically, sure. I- why not, right? I, I, I don't know, maybe. It, it's like Star Trek and the [00:33:25] transporters, is like, yes, theoret- like, that's a, a fictional TV show.
[00:33:29] Andrew: They have some [00:33:30] explanations of how they reconstitute atoms and have a, you know, pattern and it's all really [00:33:35] hand-wavy and it's fun to think about, but it's like the reality is there's no evidence that, that that's possible. [00:33:40] But, uh, if you could, let's just assume for fun you can, you [00:33:45] crash here, which, um, like, if you can fly across the universe and bend space time, how are you [00:33:50] crashing?
[00:33:50] Nathan: Yeah, why we showed them crashing?
[00:33:52] Andrew: Right? Number one, how are you [00:33:55] crashing? Uh, that's a big oops. You get a little fender bender, yo, like, you have a problem, [00:34:00] and you crashed your, like, intergalactic space-time bending time machine thing, [00:34:05] like... Um, look, and I, I say that i- as kind of a jest because if you're actually bending [00:34:10] space time, you don't really interact with matter.
[00:34:13] Nathan: Right,
[00:34:13] Andrew: And So the, the [00:34:15] idea of crashing doesn't work because i- if you're... I don't know if I [00:34:20] wanna give a physics lecture. think of, you can think of space time, like, the ship is a good analogy, [00:34:25] right? You're existing on space time, you're going through it, there's some resistance when you meet the water. [00:34:30] To bend outside of space time would do, effectively put a bubble around your ship [00:34:35] where the water no longer has any drag on it.
[00:34:37] Andrew: You can go as fast as you want because the water effectively [00:34:40] doesn't exist until that, this magic bubble stops, and then all of a sudden you're hit with the water. The [00:34:45] thing I love about these space time bending theories is that, uh, theoretically it's [00:34:50] possible. The reality would be, I guess, you would create, uh, this mythical space [00:34:55] time shield, would accumulate matter and, like, energy effectively [00:35:00] around it.
[00:35:01] Andrew: And you would ef- it's like, instead of, like, going across the water, you're kind of, like, [00:35:05] going into the water, but instead of the water being, like, liquid, it's more of, like, a sludge. And so you [00:35:10] create this, like, tremendous space time drag, like, theoretically. And so when you [00:35:15] stop, all of that space time shit then would, like, effectively collide with you.
[00:35:19] Andrew: And[00:35:20]
[00:35:20] Andrew: I think it's gamma radiation, lots of it would happen. And so you would probably irradiate [00:35:25] yourself if you could do this, so you'd have to somehow fa- solve that problem, too. And, you know, if you think [00:35:30] about pushing pebbles on a beach or something, you accumulate this massive pushback. And, like, [00:35:35] space time, again, I, who knows?
[00:35:37] Andrew: But, like, from what I understand of, of [00:35:40] our theoretical understanding, it's a similar principle in that you don't go through space [00:35:45] time, you just kind of impede its effects. But then at some point, to, like, balance the [00:35:50] equation, you have to figure out a way to reenter space time
[00:35:52] Nathan: Hmm
[00:35:53] Andrew: And then what, right? [00:35:55] And so the, the special relativity experiments are always time is relative to [00:36:00] the observer.
[00:36:01] Andrew: And so as you're traveling at the speed of light or faster than the speed of light [00:36:05] or whatever, y- y- you would appear effectively frozen to everybody around [00:36:10] you, but everything around you would be going at, like, normal time for you. It's, it gets really weird and, [00:36:15] and, and screwy, right?
[00:36:16] Nathan: Yeah, yeah. There's some like black hole pod experiments that,
[00:36:18] Andrew: So again, I don't [00:36:20] know how you crash
[00:36:21] Nathan: mm.
[00:36:22] Nathan: mm. or how you could be shot down.
[00:36:24] Andrew: You know, [00:36:25] that's the other one, by a missile or a bullet. Like, that's kinetic forces. If you're going through space [00:36:30] time, you, you've... Kinetic physics shouldn't matter,
[00:36:33] Nathan: D- exactly. Yeah, [00:36:35] yeah. Yeah. I mean,
[00:36:35] Nathan: I, that's the thing that I, that's the thing I always try and understand is when... [00:36:40] Like, we're all operating, we're operating here right now in, in the realm of what we know of, of [00:36:45] physics right now, and some of the things I hear are like, "Oh, these things that we see break [00:36:50] our model of physics," so there's some way to explain something outside [00:36:55] of what we know, and that's how it's possible.
[00:36:57] Nathan: But then it, it, it quickly devolves into a realm of if you [00:37:00] have no axioms, like, you don't have any rules, then
[00:37:02] Nathan: anything is possible, right?
[00:37:04] Andrew: No, that's [00:37:05] a really
[00:37:05] Nathan: what I that's what... I can't click, I can't click those two together. It's like, well, I only know what [00:37:10] I, I know, so if you're gonna talk about things I don't understand, I, I can't participate.
[00:37:14] Nathan: I don't, I don't understand [00:37:15] what
[00:37:15] Nathan: you're trying to say, right?
[00:37:16] Andrew: And sure, I, I, our understanding of physics and you get [00:37:20] into quantum, you know, quantum entanglement comes up a lot. That's, I, I would say fairly [00:37:25] understood for quantum reality stuff. It gets really nutty, quantum. Um, but [00:37:30] I agree. Okay, sure, maybe, but give me the evidence of how this would [00:37:35] work,
[00:37:35] Andrew: right
[00:37:35] Andrew: 'Cause like f- if you, like... And this is part of the problem that we have with physics today, is we [00:37:40] understand quantum physics with a certain set of rules. We understand what we call classical [00:37:45] physics, which is what everybody interacts with every day, with a certain set of rules. And then there's, like, [00:37:50] galactic or, like, I'm gonna call it galactic physics, which [00:37:55] is also kind of a different set of rules.
[00:37:57] Andrew: It, it aligns a lot more with [00:38:00] classical physics, but when you talk about, like, galaxies moving Oh, on a mass, massive on a [00:38:05] massive scale, like, weird shit happens that we don't quite understand. Like, the whole [00:38:10] dark matter thing is kind of one of these ideas that
[00:38:13] Nathan: Uh
[00:38:14] Andrew: it became a [00:38:15] placeholder on the very large... 'Cause space is mostly empty, but yet there's all these forces that are [00:38:20] happening all the time, and the best way that we've found to explain that is, like, there's a bunch of shit there we can't see.
[00:38:24] Nathan: Hmm[00:38:25]
[00:38:25] Andrew: All the physicists are like, "Oh, I hate you." And I'm like, "Yeah, but basically that's what you're saying,"
[00:38:29] Nathan: [00:38:30] Yeah,
[00:38:30] Nathan: there's, I think, uh, there's a name, w- there's a n- phenomena for this. Like, yeah, once
[00:38:34] Nathan: you give it a name, it's like, oh, yeah, [00:38:35] yeah, w- we know that
[00:38:35] Nathan: exists. We have no idea how it works, but it
[00:38:37] Nathan: has a name, so and it's a, it's a math thing, right? So the, [00:38:40] the part of it's like a, the math to balance it, that's what it is. And then part of it is like [00:38:45] there's a lot of stuff that the math kind of says should be there, but we don't-- It's kind of more of like a question mark. Like, [00:38:50] yeah, the evidence says it should be there and it's not.
[00:38:52] Andrew: And for folks being like, "Ah, well that's, that's bullshit." [00:38:55] And it's like, well, but this is how quantum physics worked, right? I, uh, we got quarks [00:39:00] here, what was it? Five, six years ago. The theoretical physicists [00:39:05] predicted quarks, which are a subatomic particle, and we collided a bunch of shit together at [00:39:10] CERN, and we proved that they are indeed real, and we [00:39:15] observed it.
[00:39:16] Andrew: I use quotes 'cause that's a whole thing.
[00:39:18] Nathan: From the numbers [00:39:20] we've, we've
[00:39:20] Andrew: But right. But right. So we predicted the math, you know, [00:39:25] theoretically it's there, and that's why I keep saying theoretically this is possible, theoretically this makes sense. 'Cause yes, it [00:39:30] does, but we haven't proven it. And I think what I keep coming back to with this is like, there's a lot of, quote-unquote, [00:39:35] "evidence," but there's no proof And that's fine.
[00:39:39] Andrew: Like, [00:39:40] maybe there isn't proof. Maybe there is proof and it's just not declassified. I don't know. But people [00:39:45] are getting really spun up, and again, I keep seeing these same parallels with the same thing with AI. [00:39:50] So I, again, I, I have a really hard time believing that there's a group of people in some sketchy [00:39:55] lab in Russia or China or North Korea or wherever, Canada.
[00:39:59] Andrew: It's okay, I love you, [00:40:00] Canada.
[00:40:00] Nathan: I don't know. If you've bent, if you've bent spacetime, let me know, Canada. I, I'm in. [00:40:05] Um, but, uh, I have a hard time... I just... 'Cause it, we are... You would have to be so far [00:40:10] beyond. Like, this isn't like computing where it was like, oh yeah, we, we created [00:40:15] transformers, you know, in 2012-ish in, in the deep neural nets, and we can kinda do some things [00:40:20] with like two gigabyte models, and that's insane now, right?
[00:40:22] Andrew: 'Cause the models are massive. They're terabytes big. But [00:40:25] it's like that was a big deal, and then 10 years later we have, you know, data center scale compute [00:40:30] where you have millions of, you know, gigawatts of power and you have [00:40:35] these magical so-called capabilities of AI. Th- this is like five or 10 [00:40:40] steps beyond that, right?
[00:40:42] Andrew: And okay, may- again maybe, sure. I'll, I'll, I'll sit in [00:40:45] may- I'll camp maybe on that. But, uh, uh, where is that gap? Like w- that would be [00:40:50] such... And like you would... It, this isn't like a couple people in a room problem [00:40:55] either. Like this is probably hundreds of people needed to like if... Let's just [00:41:00] as- assume that humanity has bent spacetime physics or we've developed [00:41:05] some sort of shit.
[00:41:06] Andrew: Like that's not Andrew and Nathan like hammering away in a lab somewhere. [00:41:10] That's like hundreds of people who are like the top of the top of their fields of [00:41:15] study
[00:41:15] Nathan: Like
[00:41:15] Andrew: and like...
[00:41:17] Andrew: Right, and they would've had to have been trained somewhere and they would've [00:41:20] had to consume this knowledge somewhere. So oh, the aliens probably trained them, right?
[00:41:24] Andrew: That's probably what [00:41:25] people are saying
[00:41:25] Nathan: I mean, I was, I was gonna say is like another maybe conspiratorial line of thought [00:41:30] is if there were some subset of people who somehow had figured out this [00:41:35] AGI, quote unquote AGI, that the AGI was the thing that actually discovered all the things [00:41:40] that you would need to, to leapfrog all of
[00:41:41] Nathan: humanity's inventions.
[00:41:43] Andrew: Got it.
[00:41:44] Nathan: So [00:41:45] more AI.
[00:41:46] Andrew: conspiracy to get, to drip-feed us AI so that [00:41:50] they can then reveal aliens. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Um, but at the same [00:41:55] time, I think that if it is that, like, it, we... [00:42:00] That's bad, right? We... That would be really bad. If, if [00:42:05] anybody in the world frankly had that level of technology, the amount of imbalance is fucking [00:42:10] crazy.
[00:42:10] Nathan: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:10] Andrew: 'Cause, like, not even nukes matter at that point because it, they wouldn't apply probably. [00:42:15] Maybe. It's hard to say. There's a lot of energy involved, so maybe you could do some damage, but, [00:42:20] like
[00:42:20] Nathan: I mean, if you don't interact with Matt or just war- warp the nuke away
[00:42:22] Andrew: Yeah, but energy, right? Yeah. [00:42:25] Well, yeah, but like that, that's one thing I don't, I don't quite have enough understanding [00:42:30] around high energy stuff, 'cause then you start getting into plasma too, which is a whole thing that no one ever [00:42:35] talks about, which is technically matter, but also not
[00:42:38] Nathan: Yeah. I mean, I, I think that's what the, the [00:42:40] interesting thing about this topic is, is, is like it, it does-- Like [00:42:45] earlier you mentioned the spirituality stuff, and there are a few technical [00:42:50] people who are in the spiritual realm who talk about energy being the, the, the
[00:42:54] Nathan: only thing [00:42:55] that really exists, and it's the different manifestations and stuff like that.
[00:42:58] Nathan: So i- it's kind of interesting [00:43:00] because when we're talking about all these things that just deal with energy, you can make the argument that once you figure [00:43:05] out that it's all energy, you're
[00:43:06] Nathan: just shaping it in certain ways and doing things with, uh, you know, the rules of [00:43:10] energy that, that we know of, right? So maybe that's a possibility. I, I don't know. Again, you know, going back to [00:43:15] that, it's
[00:43:15] Nathan: outside of my, my realm of expertise.
[00:43:18] Andrew: I love that we keep coming back to is [00:43:20] we don't know. A lot of these, uh, YouTube channels or podcasts, [00:43:25] they, they have these people on and they're just like, "I
[00:43:27] Nathan: yeah. Yeah, yeah. They,
[00:43:28] Andrew: And I'm like,
[00:43:28] Andrew: "Well, if you know, then [00:43:30] tell us and give us some evidence, and don't be like, 'Well, that's classified, but I can basically say that [00:43:35] aliens exist and I worked it with them.'"
[00:43:36] Andrew: And I'm like, "Well, how is that classified but you're telling us?" That [00:43:40] doesn't make sense to me. And like maybe again, maybe it is true, and maybe there's some weird legal logic [00:43:45] games that everyone's playing. I'm bored with it. Like put up or shut up is kind of where I'm [00:43:50] at.
[00:43:50] Nathan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:43:51] Andrew: so yeah, I, I don't think it's, it's...
[00:43:53] Andrew: So I think like the last one is like it [00:43:55] is aliens, right? We kind of talked through everything
[00:43:57] Nathan: Oh, that was the last plug.
[00:43:58] Andrew: Everything else plausible?[00:44:00]
[00:44:00] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:44:00] Nathan: Yeah. I mean, aliens is always a possibility, I guess,
[00:44:03] Nathan: technically, theoretically.
[00:44:04] Andrew: [00:44:05] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, for that one, I mean, that's, that's the movie plot [00:44:10] line, right?
[00:44:11] Nathan: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
[00:44:12] Nathan: it
[00:44:13] Andrew: And I, I think there's, there's something with [00:44:15] humans where we think we're the masters of the universe and we're not. We like [00:44:20] to think we're in control, we're not. But at the same time, a lot of us also [00:44:25] need this, like, we're also not, and that's where you get, like, God or [00:44:30] spirituality or aliens.
[00:44:32] Andrew: Like, there has to be something bigger. There has to be [00:44:35] something we don't understand. And then our brain tries to reconcile it with, [00:44:40] like, God or aliens or something, right?
[00:44:43] Nathan: Yeah
[00:44:44] Andrew: [00:44:45] And it... I, like, I think Obama actually pretty put it [00:44:50] best, where
[00:44:51] Andrew: he said something... I know, right? He said something [00:44:55] like... Well, I mean, it, so it's like the Drake equation always comes to mind, right?
[00:44:58] Andrew: It, [00:45:00] it's some math that a guy did. I love my science communication for
[00:45:04] Nathan: Drake wasn't
[00:45:04] Andrew: I'm [00:45:05] just
[00:45:05] Nathan: was he? He wasn't just a random guy, was he?
[00:45:07] Andrew: and stuff, and like, yeah, [00:45:10] uh, if you're
[00:45:11] Nathan: Equation. You, you can look it up. Yeah, there's there's history [00:45:15] behind this. You can look it up.
[00:45:16] Nathan: We, we tell people to, to engage your
[00:45:17] Nathan: curiosity.
[00:45:18] Andrew: I believe he was a mathematician [00:45:20] and not, like, an astrophysicist, and, like, basically it was like, "If I were to do the math, what would
[00:45:24] Nathan: that's right?
[00:45:24] Nathan: [00:45:25] yeah. Yeah, yeah
[00:45:26] Andrew: he did the math. He made an equation, and, uh, the so-called Drake [00:45:30] equation. And he basically, quote-unquote, "proved" that it's statistically [00:45:35] improbable for there not to be life in the universe.
[00:45:38] Andrew: The only problem with that is there's [00:45:40] a fuck ton of assumptions that he made to make the math work because we just don't know. [00:45:45] We don't know how many galaxies we are. We- so he approximated, and so it's more of a [00:45:50] philosophical exercise in him doing that being not that it's, like, a mathematical proof, but it's [00:45:55] like the numbers are just so astronomically large that it doesn't...
[00:45:58] Andrew: It wouldn't make sense [00:46:00] for there to be no life in the rest of the conceivable universe. It [00:46:05] just doesn't make sense. So, like, are there aliens? Sure. I think my [00:46:10] question is, like, do they have the ability to come here? Uh, why [00:46:15] the fuck would they come here? I don't know.
[00:46:17] Nathan: that's the, that's the cherry on top is even [00:46:20] if they did have technology, like what, what about our civilization? It's a very an-
[00:46:24] Nathan: [00:46:25] anthropocentric way of thinking about it, right? A very human-centric way of like, "Oh
[00:46:28] Nathan: yeah, we're so important that aliens that have [00:46:30] this technology wanna come visit us."
[00:46:31] Andrew: Right. And, and it, you know, so okay, yeah, I mean, uh, [00:46:35] it, it seems pretty unlikely that there is no other intelligent life. I mean, there's plenty of intelligent life [00:46:40] on this planet, right? Animals are intelligent. Maybe they're alive, maybe they have souls, like all this [00:46:45] whole stuff. I don't really care about those arguments.
[00:46:46] Andrew: They're clearly here, and they're alive, and they're [00:46:50] not stupid. Anyone who's ever had a pet knows that, you know, they learn. [00:46:55] Um, they're not us, but they're not, definitely not incapable. And we have all sorts of other [00:47:00] life on this planet that we don't know anything about. Like, the ocean's full of stuff that we're still finding weird shit [00:47:05] all over the planet, and we're like, "Ah, that, that couldn't possibly be here," and oh shit, it is.
[00:47:09] Andrew: You [00:47:10] know? So great. Um, you know, and they... I think the idea that it has to be [00:47:15] carbon-based is also kind of interesting. Like, the organic [00:47:20] chemistry we know a lot about, right? But as like humans, but, uh, [00:47:25] I don't see why there couldn't be other forms of life Like, I, I, I think it, it would be [00:47:30] weird from, like, our perspective, right?
[00:47:32] Andrew: They probably wouldn't have arms and hands and fingers, [00:47:35] and they'd be totally different. But I mean, trees are a form [00:47:40] of life and, like, you can... They're conscious or not, like, that's a whole debate. But, [00:47:45] like, there could be a whole planet teeming with, you know, that kind of life that [00:47:50] it's not gonna build a spaceship and fly away.
[00:47:52] Andrew: Bacteria is always pointed at, you know, [00:47:55] viruses, like, these microscopic organisms could be all over the universe and, [00:48:00] like, they're not gonna invent a radio to, like, send signals. But th- there could be planets full of this stuff [00:48:05] that, you know, either hasn't evolved or we're special. Like, who knows? Like, [00:48:10] so I think that that's...
[00:48:12] Andrew: I think it's impossible for us to, like, be the [00:48:15] only intelligent place. I do think it's rare as fuck if it, if it
[00:48:18] Nathan: that we would be [00:48:20] the,
[00:48:20] Andrew: I think just intelligence or life is rare from everything we've seen,
[00:48:23] Nathan: Oh, oh, oh, our solar [00:48:25] system.
[00:48:25] Andrew: Uh, yeah.
[00:48:27] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:48:27] Nathan: Right. And yeah, and what it was, say, [00:48:30] listening to, uh, something where they're talking about, like, the size of the Earth relative to the [00:48:35] sun, and the Earth, it, it would- in order to just cross the, uh, [00:48:40] equator of the sun would take 160-some Earths.
[00:48:43] Andrew: So that's how much more [00:48:45] massive the sun is than Earth,
[00:48:47] Nathan: Right
[00:48:48] Andrew: and we're, like, I think 1,000 Earths [00:48:50] away. So if you were to put Earth next to Earth next to Earth, it would take, like, 1,000 to touch the sun, [00:48:55] and it, it's just an illustration of how, like, massive the numbers and the scale is. Like, I [00:49:00] don't think human brains can even comprehend how, like, big it is out there.
[00:49:04] Nathan: Mm-hmm.[00:49:05]
[00:49:05] Andrew: And again, that to me even makes... Even if there are aliens and they have super technology, [00:49:10] like, you're still talking, you know, years to, to have [00:49:15] any meaningful distance travel even at, like, th- the speed of light. It takes, what is it? [00:49:20] The next star system from us is, like, four years for light to go. So if you can go as [00:49:25] fast as, yeah, as fast as the speed of light in your space car, it still [00:49:30] takes you four years to get there, right?
[00:49:32] Andrew: So you're, you're living in a little Apollo capsule or the [00:49:35] moon lander capsule, you know, uh, something that's, that they describe the size of a tent, and we can [00:49:40] barely keep people alive for, like, a week. But yet we're gonna somehow do that for four years [00:49:45] and exceed, like, the speed of light or, like, get basically there?
[00:49:48] Andrew: Like-
[00:49:49] Nathan: Well, I think that's why [00:49:50] the, the whole thing of like once it goes outside the realm of we know as, as rules of [00:49:55] physics, then anything's possible, right? 'Cause I, I think there's descriptions around, okay, use a lot of [00:50:00] wormholes or some sort of way to bypass the whole
[00:50:02] Andrew: Yeah, but wormholes aren't real though. That's,[00:50:05]
[00:50:05] Nathan: I, I, that's what I, that's what I'm trying to get at. That's what I'm trying to get at, is this like the theoretical
[00:50:09] Nathan: idea [00:50:10] behind the worm- If you had some sort of force to hold the wormhole open to get something,
[00:50:14] Nathan: right? But you just need [00:50:15] an immense amount of energy to do something like that, like holding a wormhole open.
[00:50:18] Andrew: Well, theoretically.[00:50:20]
[00:50:20] Nathan: Theoretically, exactly. so, but like, so I think wormholes come from quantum [00:50:25] tunneling. I, I don't know the etymology of wormholes in science fiction, but I [00:50:30] believe... Or, well, I don't know, maybe they predate... I think it's a clever literary [00:50:35] device to get you from point A to point B.
[00:50:38] Nathan: I mean, oh, yeah, sure, sure.[00:50:40]
[00:50:40] Nathan: Uh, it definitely is. It, it
[00:50:41] Nathan: absolutely is, uh, yeah
[00:50:42] Andrew: But, qu- there, there's, you know, a lot of quantum [00:50:45] physics. Quantum tunneling is a thing where you can, uh, theoretically [00:50:50] move through a quantum tunnel
[00:50:52] Andrew: and you bypass space time and, you know, [00:50:55] the idea that a wormhole, that you can traverse it and go great distances really fast with low [00:51:00] limitations is like, okay, fine, that maybe.
[00:51:02] Andrew: Again, quantum and, uh, quantum physics [00:51:05] and classical physics and astrophysics don't m- jive as it is, as we understand, so okay, let's [00:51:10] just solve all that, I guess. Um, uh, I, I also don't know, like, I [00:51:15] just try to imagine like, okay, we, we've solved all these problems. Why would you [00:51:20] go? I'm super curious. Like, that's the whole p- I, the whole podcast is like Andrew wants to learn [00:51:25] shit about stuff, right?
[00:51:27] Andrew: That's the whole... Sorry, folks, that's what this is. Like I [00:51:30] l- and then I like record it and I share it with people 'cause I think other people are probably interested. Partly why we're [00:51:35] talking about this, 'cause I'm like, "This is crazy. I don't know what el- I don't know what to make of it. Let's just talk about it."
[00:51:39] Nathan: you [00:51:40] mentioned this topic to me several times before we
[00:51:41] Nathan: had this guest.
[00:51:43] Andrew: I'm just like, I don't know. This is [00:51:45] weird. Uh, s- but, you know, a- and people, you know, like maybe you would have [00:51:50] like aliens who are like the Lewis and Clark type people. "I'm gonna go into the great unknown [00:51:55] woods and like map the United States."
[00:51:58] Nathan: Yeah
[00:51:58] Andrew: know, right? I, I [00:52:00] also just feel like if you've solved all the problems to get there, you have like unlimited energy, [00:52:05] you would theoretically have unlimited food.
[00:52:07] Andrew: Like, you would theoretically be able to like [00:52:10] rearrange mal- you know, the, the replicator from Star Trek is a real out- [00:52:15] reality. Anything you could ever want, you just throw some rocks in one side and then poops out some [00:52:20] whatever, right? Like,
[00:52:21] Andrew: you've mastered these levels of [00:52:25] technology. Why drive across the universe in your space car?
[00:52:27] Andrew: Like,
[00:52:28] Nathan: Right. Right.
[00:52:29] Andrew: maybe you're [00:52:30] bored. I don't know,
[00:52:31] Nathan: yeah, I was gonna s-- I was actually going to suggest that. Maybe, maybe that's a testament to the curiosity [00:52:35] element. Maybe that's if it actually s- surpasses or, or goes through all the, uh, [00:52:40] the the barriers that we, we actually get anywhere, right? Like,
[00:52:44] Nathan: th- there is a... That's [00:52:45] one of the things I was thinking about for, you know, when we do hear about, uh, like [00:52:50] this technology that does this, say hypothetically it does, there's a push for us to, "Oh, we need to understand [00:52:55] it.
[00:52:55] Nathan: We need to invest more
[00:52:55] Nathan: resources to learn about it." And then going back to like the w- the why. Is it, is it to [00:53:00] defend ourselves if something were to happen? Or I've heard arguments that if we did understand the [00:53:05] technology, all of a sudden these limits that we had for, uh, infinite [00:53:10] energy are, are now actually possible.
[00:53:11] Nathan: We can improve the lives of so many people.
[00:53:13] Nathan: There, there's [00:53:15] very... I- in my head, there's like an, an atelic moment around just understanding that you, you'll [00:53:20] never understand enough.
[00:53:21] Nathan: So like what's, what's the drive to, to really move [00:53:25] any action towards doing anything about learning about what these UAPs or UFOs are?
[00:53:29] Nathan: There's gotta be something [00:53:30] you, you
[00:53:30] Nathan: want out of
[00:53:30] Andrew: and that's one of the arguments, like, against the Drake equation is that, [00:53:35] uh, sure there's millions of civilizations out there or whatever, but any civilization [00:53:40] that's technologically s- sufficient enough to be able to do this would have killed [00:53:45] themselves with the technology far be- far before they actually were able to get it, right?
[00:53:49] Andrew: That's the nuclear war [00:53:50] problem.
[00:53:50] Nathan: Yeah
[00:53:51] Andrew: Um, so you know, yeah, that, I got, that could be, too, that the [00:53:55] natural evolution of all life is that they invent technology that is so powerful that they end [00:54:00] up using it to try to kill each other off and then do.
[00:54:02] Nathan: Hmm
[00:54:03] Andrew: Sad, but I mean, I, I [00:54:05] don't... Why not, right? If we're removing all the not? If we're, yeah, if we're getting through [00:54:10] space-time, everything's possible. But I, I, I do think that that, like, what is the [00:54:15] motivation? Um, the thing that I kind of see, and again, I'm not an aficionado, but I've watched some clips [00:54:20] on YouTube and, like, read some stuff, and it seems like everybody always points to, like, [00:54:25] nuclear weapons or nuclear explosions as, like, a reason.
[00:54:28] Andrew: So it's like, uh, [00:54:30] one of the analogies I've heard was if, you know, you don't care about the ants in your backyard until they, like, come [00:54:35] inside and now they're in your kitchen. You're like, "Ah, I'm gonna murder you all now," right? [00:54:40] Like, maybe not everyone. Maybe some people are like, "Oh, that's really unfortunate," but most people are like, "I'm just gonna murder you all and [00:54:45] poison the whole colony."
[00:54:46] Nathan: I, I don't... Those are extremes. Maybe something or somewhere [00:54:50] in the middle. But yeah.
[00:54:51] Andrew: Well, I'm talking like infestation, right? You got like hundreds of ants all over your [00:54:55] kitchen or something, you know, you're, you're gonna like... Most people are gonna just poison the whole [00:55:00] colony.
[00:55:00] Nathan: Right,
[00:55:00] Nathan: right, right but I don't think people are even intellectualizing that either, and I, I'm trying to make a point [00:55:05] with that too, because like you are.
[00:55:06] Andrew: Like you, you do the little poison trap on the counter, like you're literally [00:55:10] genociding the whole colony of ants.
[00:55:12] Nathan: 'Cause the intention is they bring that poison back to the
[00:55:14] Nathan: hive and then [00:55:15] they, they distribute it and all of a sudden, yeah
[00:55:17] Andrew: Wanna be clear there with folks. Uh, [00:55:20] but so, you know, the, that's the thing I guess with aliens and humans is like we [00:55:25] invented nukes and like, uh, that's a big deal for some reason.
[00:55:28] Andrew: And, uh, then [00:55:30] they got interested. And so like the idea would be like, okay, the ants are in your kitchen. Oh no, I'm gonna get rid of them. [00:55:35] Now if the ants had nukes, now all of a sudden everyone in the neighborhood's gonna be like, "What the shit?" [00:55:40] You know, the ant colony's literally gone nuclear, you know. And they're [00:55:45] shooting like little rockets out of their anthill, you know?
[00:55:48] Andrew: Like, you're like, "Holy crap," [00:55:50] like, " I gotta do something about this," right?
[00:55:52] Nathan: Yeah, I, I guess. I
[00:55:54] Nathan: guess it's
[00:55:54] Nathan: theoretically [00:55:55] possible.
[00:55:55] Andrew: Yeah, you know, or like the squirrels in your yard just develop nuclear weapons and [00:56:00] start bombing stuff or like have, you know, flight, you know... It, it sounds silly, but I mean, [00:56:05] I,
[00:56:05] Nathan: Right
[00:56:06] Andrew: sure, right? Why not? Um, and so maybe. You know, [00:56:10] nuclear weapons are bad, frankly, like
[00:56:12] Nathan: That's the agreed upon, yeah. That seems the
[00:56:14] Nathan: [00:56:15] takeaway here is nuclear weapons are bad.
[00:56:16] Andrew: Nuclear weapons are bad. I, one thing on nuclear [00:56:20] weapons, I think the best commentary I've ever seen is there's an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, [00:56:25] not to spoil it, but they go back in time.
[00:56:28] Andrew: And they're trying to figure out where the hell they [00:56:30] are, and they're doing all these scans, you know, they're in their ship. And Star Trek, you know, this is set 2,000 or [00:56:35] 1,000 years in the future or something, so they have all this magic technology. They don't have time travel, except for some of the universes they [00:56:40] do, but for the most part they don't have time travel.
[00:56:42] Andrew: And it's science fiction, for the record.
[00:56:44] Nathan: [00:56:45] Hmm.
[00:56:45] Andrew: But they end up s-
[00:56:46] Andrew: yeah, so they're, like, doing the scans and they find, uh, traces [00:56:50] of, like, plutonium in the atmosphere, and they're like, "Well, that's weird. Like, that's really toxic." And, and, like, in the, [00:56:55] the Star Trek canon, you know, everything's kind of biological for the most part and, like, [00:57:00] nu- you know, nu- nuclear radiation's bad.
[00:57:03] Andrew: Every- everybody is pretty much [00:57:05] susceptible to that, so they don't screw with nukes. And they're like... And one of the alien species was [00:57:10] like, "Why is there so much?" Like, "What the hell happened?" Like, "Was there some kind of, like, an attack or something?" And [00:57:15] they're like, "Oh, no, no, no." And then they figure out that it's, like, Earth from, like, the [00:57:20] 19, like, 80s I think it was, or the 60s.
[00:57:22] Andrew: And they're like, "Oh yeah, that's when they were testing all the nuclear [00:57:25] weapons and stuff." And, and the alien was just, like, flipping out. They're like, "They irradiated their [00:57:30] own planet?" And that always sticks in the back of my mind, right? Because it, it... And I don't [00:57:35] think people realize this, but people who were born before all of the atomic [00:57:40] testing don't have certain isotopes in their body.
[00:57:44] Andrew: Everyone else [00:57:45] born after does. And the people who, uh, everybody who's lived [00:57:50] on the planet and has eaten stuff, we all have these isotopes now in our... We're [00:57:55] identifiable.
[00:57:56] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:57:56] Andrew: And because the radioactivity decays to the point where it doesn't [00:58:00] necessarily harm us, but it's still there, and it's there for, like, thousands of years [00:58:05] in some cases depending upon the isotopes.
[00:58:07] Andrew: So when you start thinking about, like, you [00:58:10] know, life is rare and, and, uh, you wanna, you know, cherish it, [00:58:15] and then you have the s- s- these monkey people blowing shit up on the [00:58:20] planet, like, maybe there is some sort of intervention that needs to happen, right? And they're like, "Hey, you're [00:58:25] not supposed to do that."
[00:58:26] Nathan: Yeah, yeah. Stop
[00:58:27] Nathan: killing your... Yeah, yeah.
[00:58:28] Nathan: Mm-hmm
[00:58:29] Andrew: Like a kid on a [00:58:30] stove, you're like, "Nah, don't do that. You're gonna get hurt."
[00:58:33] Andrew: Um, so yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's more [00:58:35] philosophical, I think, than anything, but, uh, sure, why not, right? The aliens don't want us to have [00:58:40] nukes. I don't have a problem with that one.
[00:58:41] Nathan: Yeah, yeah
[00:58:42] Andrew: I, I, I know we're coming up on an [00:58:45] hour.
[00:58:45] Andrew: We try to keep these at a half an hour. Uh, for me, I
[00:58:47] Nathan: Aliens, man.
[00:58:48] Andrew: I know, but aliens
[00:58:49] Nathan: But [00:58:50] yeah. Yeah.
[00:58:52] Andrew: Uh, I don't know. I, I still have a hard time with why the, [00:58:55] why would they care? I, I just don't.
[00:58:56] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:58:57] Andrew: I mean, if you, you can bend space [00:59:00] time
[00:59:00] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:59:00] Andrew: Why? Right? And even if we have nukes, you'd just be like, if you could bend space time, you [00:59:05] could theoretically stop anything you wanted.
[00:59:07] Nathan: Right. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:59:09] Andrew: And then why would you be [00:59:10] invested in the ant colony, right? You like get them out of your kitchen and now you're like, "Oh, I'm gonna teach them [00:59:15] English." You know, you're like, "No, fuck," you're like, "Fuck off. You're out in your,
[00:59:18] Andrew: you know, ant colony and I'm back [00:59:20] in my house." Like, you know, "Good, go away. Never see you again."
[00:59:22] Andrew: And they come in again, you're like, "Now I'm gonna genocide all [00:59:25] of you
[00:59:25] Nathan: Well, let's try not to get that boring.
[00:59:27] Andrew: I know. Well, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I, I think people need [00:59:30] to understand that, but, uh, I, I don't know. The thing I think to take away from this [00:59:35] for me is that, um, if there is stuff that the [00:59:40] government knows, I would hope that they would release it because, like [00:59:45] the... Just talking about nukes, like the Manhattan Project's a great example.
[00:59:48] Andrew: So like we would, I think, have never [00:59:50] invented nuclear weapons or nuclear technology had there not been that in the [00:59:55] zeitgeist, right? Like nuclear technology didn't just come out of nowhere, [01:00:00] right? It, it had been theorized... Oof, gotta go back in the brain on that one. [01:00:05] But I think it was like pretty well understood in the late [01:00:10] 1800s, and then we got, was it neutrons?
[01:00:14] Andrew: I think we, I think [01:00:15] we in, discovered neutrons, and then we're like, " Wow, this is [01:00:20] scary. It's a particle that can go through
[01:00:21] Nathan: we didn't know that was there. Yeah, we didn't know that
[01:00:22] Andrew: Ah."
[01:00:23] Nathan: Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, yeah
[01:00:24] Andrew: [01:00:25] And then it was like around the turn of the century, 1910s, there was a lot of [01:00:30] math that predated Einstein and, and that's where Einstein really kind of put it all together and packaged it up and [01:00:35] was like, "Actually, all this stuff is really possible, and here's pathways to [01:00:40] understand, like, how to go about it."
[01:00:42] Andrew: And then, like the idea of splitting the atom had been around for [01:00:45] a long time 'cause like it was theorized that that's how the sun worked, right? Fission, fusion, all those [01:00:50] kind of things. And, uh, Einstein pushed [01:00:55] that forward a lot with, along with a lot of other people. But I don't think had we [01:01:00] not had a group of people really focused on that...
[01:01:03] Andrew: And it was a massive effort. It was like tens of [01:01:05] thousands of people involved in the Manhattan Project. Everyone thinks it's like five people in a lab somewhere. No, no, there's tens of [01:01:10] thousands of people. This was a massive undertaking. But my point is, that would've never [01:01:15] happened had nuclear understanding not been in the zeitgeist.
[01:01:18] Andrew: If that would've been like some [01:01:20] conspiratorial secret where only like 10 people in the world knew, we would've never gotten that technology. We would've never [01:01:25] figured it out. And so I guess I hope that if there is something or there is [01:01:30] indications, that we could get it out and we figure it out. [01:01:35] We talk about this all the time on the podcast, where if, if you're not approaching [01:01:40] stuff and you're not collaborating with people, you can be the most brilliant person in the world, but you're not gonna make any [01:01:45] uh, breakthrough.
[01:01:46] Andrew: And if we do have crashed alien crafts, I would hope that [01:01:50] we would have the best and brightest people in the world being like, "What the fuck is this?" and not, "How did it get [01:01:55] here?" Right? Yeah I, and I guess, yeah, sure, scary, oh my God, they might, you know, [01:02:00] abduct us or genocide. I mean, if, if you have the ability to traverse spacetime and we [01:02:05] somehow shot you down, I have no problem believing they wouldn't be able to do anything they [01:02:10] wanted
[01:02:10] Nathan: Right, right
[01:02:11] Andrew: If aliens exist, right?
[01:02:12] Andrew: I have no, like, th- that level [01:02:15] of understanding of reality, like
[01:02:17] Nathan: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:02:19] Nathan: I You know, we're throwing [01:02:20] rocks at like Jupiter at that point, right? Like
[01:02:23] Nathan: hey, you, you might get lucky and hit the, hit [01:02:25] the, hit the eye of the storm and take everything
[01:02:27] Andrew: Yeah. Right? So, so I would just really hope [01:02:30] that, you know, get it disclosed or whatever. You know, there's all this hype, and if we cut the hype, get the [01:02:35] information out. If there actually is shit, then yeah, let's get the smartest people in the world, a [01:02:40] meritocracy, figure it out. What is it? There's a lot of reasons why people don't think that's a good [01:02:45] idea, uh, but those people running the world need to, like, s- shut the fuck up for a little bit [01:02:50] and let the smart people in and
[01:02:51] Nathan: Just let it, just let it happen.
[01:02:52] Andrew: right, let the curious people in and do the [01:02:55] thing, right?
[01:02:55] Andrew: I, I... It, it's makes, makes me sad that if that's actually the [01:03:00] case, that we're just so up our own ass that we [01:03:05] can't figure it out
[01:03:06] Nathan: Oh, I mean, that's always the case. The human ego always gets in the
[01:03:08] Nathan: way. but the poten- [01:03:10] but the, you know, again, if, if, if we could actually use this tech- this hypothetical [01:03:15] technology that may or may not exist, why not? All of the problems that we have now are gone. I mean, [01:03:20] I'm sure we'd create a whole bunch of other problems. We'd try to blow ourselves up, I'm positive.
[01:03:24] Andrew: But, you know, like we [01:03:25] didn't, we haven't nuked ourselves since, you know, the '40s
[01:03:29] Andrew: I mean, we did, [01:03:30] right? We nuked Japan twice. So, like, I can't say we've never nuked ourselves, but we were like, [01:03:35] "Holy shit, that's bad. We shouldn't do that anymore. We're just gonna threaten about it." And we haven't, and I [01:03:40] hope that we never do.
[01:03:41] Nathan: Mm-hmm.
[01:03:41] Andrew: So I don't know. I, I mean, I feel like humanity, like, has to grow up, [01:03:45] and I, like, we've talked about this on the podcast where we've...
[01:03:47] Andrew: I feel like we've been stuck as a species [01:03:50] in technological development and just, like, development for a long time, that it's not that progress [01:03:55] isn't happening, but I want, like, the, the new Apollo era where everyone's really [01:04:00] excited to, like, try shit and push ourselves further than we [01:04:05] thought were possible and develop new technology that who knows what happens
[01:04:09] Nathan: Yeah. [01:04:10] Yeah. I mean, I, I think that's the, the, the through line I'm seeing that I, I like considered before. I think like the pursuit [01:04:15] of knowledge in itself is, is fairly admirable, but you have to do it with intellectual humility.
[01:04:18] Nathan: And [01:04:20] we have... Not everyone's on the same page in terms of humans
[01:04:24] Andrew: [01:04:25] Yeah. And that's okay, right? But again, like, I want the best and brightest on this [01:04:30] shit.
[01:04:30] Andrew: If it's real, if there's crashed alien craft, if there's technologically advanced shit [01:04:35] that Russia or China or someone else came up with, like, I want the smartest people in the world figuring [01:04:40] it out.
[01:04:41] Nathan: right.
[01:04:41] Andrew: And I want it to then be applied to make my life better, [01:04:45] right?
[01:04:45] Andrew: If, if we can go zero to 10,000 miles an hour instantaneously in something [01:04:50] that's, like, anything smaller than the size of a planet, I want that energy source deployed to [01:04:55] the entire world. We have free unlimited energy at that point, right? [01:05:00] Cool. There's a lot of problems associated with that, but we've solved a lot of problems, too.
[01:05:04] Nathan: next? [01:05:05] Right, right.
[01:05:05] Andrew: Right, what's now--
[01:05:06] Andrew: I mean, that's maybe a good way to end it. Like, what is next? Okay, we, we've [01:05:10] created some technology or we've discovered some technology. The biggest problem we have is energy. [01:05:15] Everything requires energy. That's why when there's a war in the Middle East and oil prices [01:05:20] or oil supply gets
[01:05:21] Nathan: brought it there. Yeah.
[01:05:23] Nathan: Yeah
[01:05:23] Andrew: but the point is, is everything gets [01:05:25] more expensive. The, the people who grow the food use energy to grow [01:05:30] the food. The people who ship the food to the distribution center use energy. The people [01:05:35] who ship it to the store, you go to the store, you use energy. Everything is constrained on [01:05:40] energy. And so anytime there's a, a little blip, price of everything goes up, price of [01:05:45] gas, price of diesel, price of oil, everything else gets more expensive.
[01:05:49] Andrew: So if we can solve that [01:05:50] problem, economics is fundamentally changed.
[01:05:53] Nathan: Yeah,
[01:05:53] Andrew: And a lot of people get scared by it. What do you [01:05:55] do? You do whatever the fuck you want, right? You don't have to have, like... You know, [01:06:00] a- and I, I think this idea, too, that if there was some sort of, like, limitless energy potential thing, [01:06:05] like...
[01:06:06] Andrew: You know, it's gonna take time to apply it, it's gonna take time to adapt to it. It's-- I'm [01:06:10] sure there's some disadvantage, right? There's always a disadvantage with everything. Um, but, [01:06:15] like, why don't we want that? Like, why wouldn't... You know, yeah, the everything [01:06:20] changes, but cool. I'm, I guess I'm in camp change, and I'm-- Like, I, I don't [01:06:25] understand camp not change.
[01:06:26] Andrew: Like, I can get it intellectually, like it's scary and maybe it blows up and the world ends or [01:06:30] whatever, but I'm like, we have nukes. We can end the world anytime. We don't, and hopefully we don't, [01:06:35] don't. But, like, there's all sorts of problems and dangers and scary shit. But it's like, let's choose to, like, [01:06:40] focus on the positive and, like, you know,
[01:06:42] Nathan: Yeah. Right, right.
[01:06:43] Andrew: try to make it better.
[01:06:44] Nathan: the, the main [01:06:45] argument for the not camp is national security.
[01:06:47] Andrew: I know, right?
[01:06:48] Nathan: Unfortunately, yes.[01:06:50]
[01:06:50] Andrew: But, you know, but, uh, you know, so, uh, if, if that was the case or, you know, if, if you can bend space time, like I don't [01:06:55] even know. My brain doesn't even go there. You know,
[01:06:57] Andrew: I, I, I I don't even know what the [01:07:00] ramifications of that would be even, like theoretically, like any... So like energy [01:07:05] is underpinning everything and required for everything.
[01:07:07] Andrew: If you could bend space time, [01:07:10] then theoretically the amount of time you would have to put in with energy would decrease to zero,[01:07:15]
[01:07:15] Nathan: Right.
[01:07:16] Andrew: right? It's the singularity idea that you could just effectively, you know, if it takes [01:07:20] you 100 years to build this thing, you put it in a little space time bubble, and then it just pops [01:07:25] out in a second later and it's done, 'cause time is relative.
[01:07:28] Andrew: So that would be kind of [01:07:30] cool
[01:07:30] Nathan: Hmm. Kinda cool, yeah. See- seems like a pie in the sky idea, but
[01:07:33] Nathan: absolutely. I, I think [01:07:35] that's... 'Cause those are the things we have to shoot for, right?
[01:07:36] Andrew: yeah, and maybe it'd be fun to do a cast on, like, what [01:07:40] would, like, what, um...
[01:07:41] Nathan: A world of infinite energy look like?
[01:07:43] Andrew: Yeah.
[01:07:44] Nathan: [01:07:45] Hmm
[01:07:45] Andrew: 'Cause that unlocks all sort- like, everything we have is constrained by energy.
[01:07:49] Nathan: [01:07:50] Hmm
[01:07:50] Andrew: And that's, you know, one of the arguments of diversifying energy is, like, oil is, you know, toxic [01:07:55] when you burn it, so, like, solar Also limit, also limited in supply,
[01:07:59] Nathan: you know, compared [01:08:00] theoretically, I mean, I, I,
[01:08:01] Nathan: Theoretically. We like that word today.
[01:08:04] Nathan: Theoretically, [01:08:05] yes.
[01:08:05] Andrew: there... I mean, there's some people have ideas that it is [01:08:10] part or it is produced by a geothermal process
[01:08:13] Nathan: Okay. I, I
[01:08:14] Andrew: as the crust is [01:08:15] recycling,
[01:08:15] Nathan: was not aware of this.
[01:08:16] Andrew: it's a little out there, but I, I did come across it and I thought about it and [01:08:20] I'm like, "Ah, why not?" I don't- at this point everything's relative, so...
[01:08:23] Andrew: But, um, the, yeah, so the [01:08:25] idea is that, uh, oil is effectively deconstituted [01:08:30] carbon, so it's a bunch of dead stuff,
[01:08:32] Andrew: plants and animals typically. It, it can be other, [01:08:35] other s- sources of carbon, don't have to be alive. Um, and then it becomes [01:08:40] liquified, uh, because it's underground, and if it s- stays there for too long, it becomes [01:08:45] coal.
[01:08:45] Andrew: And if it stays for too much longer, then it becomes diamonds. Right? 'Cause [01:08:50] that's carbon.
[01:08:50] Nathan: Y- Right. Right. Yes. Yes.
[01:08:51] Nathan: Absolutely.
[01:08:52] Andrew: I'm being very generalizing here, but like the idea [01:08:55] is that it's, it was a, a, at one point living or like stuff. It got [01:09:00] compressed, became oil. We drill it up, we boil it, we burn it, whatever, we refine it. [01:09:05] Uh, coal's kinda the same idea.
[01:09:07] Andrew: Or maybe it's coal is, is not oil. I don't remember. [01:09:10] There's a, there's a hierarchy. Anyway, uh, and, and so the idea is that [01:09:15] geothermal processes will renew that, in quotes. And I, I'm using quotes 'cause I, I [01:09:20] think it's kind of a bullshit idea, but it, it's also like we've been running out of oil [01:09:25] for like the whole time and we just keep finding more of it.
[01:09:27] Andrew: And yes, we have to go to like harder places to get [01:09:30] it, but at the same time, like Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to be running out of oil anytime soon, and they [01:09:35] just keep like pumping. They have one of the biggest proven oil reserves in the [01:09:40] world. Um, and I, I'm not advocating for it. I wanna be clear too, is I think burning something that [01:09:45] produces a toxic gas is like a bad thing.
[01:09:47] Nathan: Mm-hmm.
[01:09:48] Andrew: You don't have to get political about [01:09:50] it. I'm just like, "There's a better way to do it. Let's do it."
[01:09:53] Nathan: Right
[01:09:53] Andrew: Um, [01:09:55] so yeah, I don't know. I think it'd be fun to do, uh, unlimited energy or [01:10:00] like what... How could the world be changed for the better? ' Cause that's one of the [01:10:05] things with AI too, right? Theoretically, if you had unlimited energy, you could build [01:10:10] unlimited chips, and then you're, you're, then you're constrained by space.
[01:10:12] Andrew: Like how much space do we have on
[01:10:14] Nathan: Yeah, I was gonna say [01:10:15] there's, there's a pace layering effect where even if
[01:10:17] Nathan: you had unlimited energy, there are other [01:10:20] infrastructural things you need to build out which take time that you can't just instantly, magically click, snap your fingers and it [01:10:25] happens even if you
[01:10:25] Nathan: had unlimited energy, right?
[01:10:27] Nathan: Um,
[01:10:27] Andrew: Yeah. So then you're conf- but then it becomes, I think, a [01:10:30] battle of what do you do with the space
[01:10:32] Nathan: There's al-
[01:10:32] Nathan: uh, let's put it this way, there's always going to be some [01:10:35] resource out there that is limited,
[01:10:36] Nathan: whether it's energy or Space, Space, [01:10:40] ah, exactly. If you had unlimited energy, you could bend space time
[01:10:43] Andrew: Then you just stack
[01:10:44] Nathan: be a concern[01:10:45]
[01:10:45] Nathan: anymore. Exactly.
[01:10:47] Andrew: And I'm joking a little bit, but I'm also not joking because again, [01:10:50] if you can bend space time, things get really fucking weird, and now all of a sudden you're shifting... I [01:10:55] mean, that's one thing we didn't really talk about is interdimensionality and, like, how you can actually move through dimensions and [01:11:00] time and stuff, and it gets really nutty
[01:11:02] Nathan: Well, we touched a little bit upon it with wormholes, but that was the
[01:11:04] Nathan: [01:11:05] idea, right? Like that, Yeah
[01:11:05] Nathan: like once you get outside of the realms of what we understand to be how the world works and
[01:11:09] Andrew: [01:11:10] Or can perceive. Like ma- again, mathematically we've proven a lot of this stuff, but it is like, I don't know if [01:11:15] it's real or fuck if we can understand it.
[01:11:17] Nathan: Yeah,
[01:11:18] Andrew: I think that's the other problem is like [01:11:20] we, you know, are, we've developed to understand what we can react to in the physical [01:11:25] world. Anything outside of this is really pretty new,
[01:11:28] Nathan: Yeah, yeah.
[01:11:29] Andrew: and our [01:11:30] biology probably hasn't caught up yet, frankly.
[01:11:32] Andrew: Like, will we get there someday? Maybe, I don't know. But like, um, your [01:11:35] brain,
[01:11:36] Andrew: you know, but, um, yeah,
[01:11:36] Andrew: your, your, brain is designed to be like running through the woods and not [01:11:40] die or get hurt and find food, and then we've evolved through culture and all this other [01:11:45] stuff and like, you know, it can do all sorts of other things, but like this like idea of like quantum [01:11:50] reality is only like 100 years old
[01:11:52] Nathan: Only 100 years old.
[01:11:53] Nathan: Yeah. I mean, honestly, we kind [01:11:55] of know a lot about it for, for being 100 years old, to be honest. But yeah
[01:11:58] Andrew: Which is all the more reason if there's aliens, [01:12:00] we should have the smartest people working on them
[01:12:02] Nathan: If there's, let me rephrase that. If there's a technology [01:12:05] that aliens or that we're claiming that aliens have access to, yes, we should put the smartest people
[01:12:09] Andrew: Right? I want the smarts [01:12:10] peo- uh,
[01:12:11] Andrew: but but yeah. So yeah, uh, do we have to know everything? Maybe not, but like, let's, let's [01:12:15] like, you know, kick the door open a little bit more and, and get the smart people involved in it and just let [01:12:20] them fucking go 'cause they'll figure it out. I have no doubt in that, right?
[01:12:23] Andrew: If, if we get the bunch of smart people in a [01:12:25] room, it'll, it'll get figured out
[01:12:27] Nathan: That, that's, uh, yeah, strangely, not s- maybe not strange. Strange is not [01:12:30] the right word, but it's very optimistic, which is good, which is nice. A nice way to end, end, uh,
[01:12:34] Nathan: end [01:12:35] it on a, on a good note. Put enough smart people in a room and they'll figure it out.
[01:12:38] Andrew: Yeah. Right? Done. [01:12:40] Easy.
[01:12:40] Nathan: Absolutely.
[01:12:41] Nathan: Absolutely.
[01:12:42] Andrew: a lot of cola and [01:12:45] whiteboards
[01:12:45] Nathan: Coca Cola. I thought, I was like, I didn't know for... [01:12:50] It took me a second to realize what you were trying...
[01:12:51] Nathan: I, I was thinking coffee, but sure, Cola
[01:12:53] Andrew: Oh yeah, I mean, not everyone's into coffee [01:12:55] though. And like the nice thing with
[01:12:55] Andrew: like a cola is you get like sugar and caffeine.
[01:12:59] Nathan: Hmm.
[01:12:59] Andrew: [01:13:00] And you, and with like, you can get that with a latte, but then you get the fat and you get kind of, you know, full
[01:13:04] Nathan: I, I mean, [01:13:05] I'm sure the smart people will figure out what the beverage of choice is for
[01:13:08] Andrew: I never thought we would be [01:13:10] off the rails on the Alien podcast
[01:13:12] Nathan: Uh, well, here we are.
[01:13:14] Nathan: Here [01:13:15] we are.
[01:13:15] Andrew: right. Well, if you, if you're tuning in, we're new on Twitch today. We [01:13:20] don't normally talk about UFO, UAP, aliens, and shit, but we did. We [01:13:25] usually, uh... Yeah
[01:13:26] Nathan: It's, it's a new audience, so if there's something you guys want to talk about, [01:13:30] uh, w- we, Andrew and I talk for hours on, on random stuff, so we'd be happy to talk about random things if you [01:13:35] guys wanna talk about
[01:13:35] Andrew: Yeah, and I apologize if anyone's actually in the chat. Uh, I don't have them open. We need [01:13:40] to figure out a way to... So we usually, we started as just audio only, and we started doing [01:13:45] video, and then we started doing live on YouTube, and now we're doing live on Twitch, and it's too much for me to [01:13:50] manage and then also talk intelligently.
[01:13:53] Andrew: So we, I need to figure out a, a [01:13:55] solution to, like, uh... So I guess the goal of, of "3 Headed" has always been to have, [01:14:00] uh, collaborative discussions, and it's hard to do in a big setting, but the [01:14:05] chat is one way that we, we do wanna do that. So I think for next week I'll have a [01:14:10] solution for chat.
[01:14:11] Nathan: I was gonna say you should build an AI bot that does does management [01:14:15] on the chat.
[01:14:16] Andrew: Yikes. Maybe. I mean, I wanna actually interact with it. It's just for, for me [01:14:20] it's like, if, just personally I guess, like, I wanna be engaged and I'm like focused on you and [01:14:25] what you're saying and like thinking and like hopefully saying some intelligent shit. And if I'm [01:14:30] reading on the side, I, I'm like, you know, then I'm all over the place and, um, so it's like I, I don't know.
[01:14:34] Andrew: I keep joking I [01:14:35] need a producer, but I kinda need to actually get a... We've had a producer in the past who's [01:14:40] helped
[01:14:41] Nathan: was just, it was just one time, but, uh, that was very smooth.
[01:14:43] Andrew: That was great.[01:14:45]
[01:14:45] Nathan: Yeah.
[01:14:45] Andrew: I think, uh, 'cause and then, then he can kinda help, you know, do the managing and then flag us for stuff. [01:14:50] 'Cause I got, that's the thing is like I, I wanna be able to actually intelligently engage with that too, so we'll figure it [01:14:55] out.
[01:14:55] Andrew: It's evolving.
[01:14:56] Nathan: We're, we're learning. Yeah, we're learning
[01:14:58] Andrew: Maybe I'll just talk to the aliens
[01:14:59] Nathan: And [01:15:00] have them do it for us. ' Cause we matter that much.
[01:15:03] Andrew: I mean, if they can bend space time, they can [01:15:05] figure out fucking Twitch and YouTube chat.
[01:15:07] Nathan: Exactly. Uh, no, it, it'll be [01:15:10] totally unique to them.
[01:15:10] Nathan: They have no idea what they're
[01:15:11] Andrew: be the one problem that we'll have intergalactic war because it'll be an [01:15:15] unsolvable problem. So anyway, thanks for, for the folks who tuned in live, and I'm sorry [01:15:20] if, with the chat. We'll, we'll get to you. We'll figure that out for next
[01:15:22] Nathan: Yes. All right.
[01:15:24] Andrew: All right, man. Take [01:15:25] care.